Mark D is Breaking Free

[Making_A_Mark]

I'm in the midst if listening through Bradshaw's Homecoming. I'll make notes on how it affects me when I'm finished.

Since I discovered NMMNG and all these self help materials, I've been diving in headfirst and really trying to focus my efforts here. It's great that I realize these traits of mine and I want to fix them, but I feel like it is making my lack of social interaction more intense and my feelings of isolation are consuming me. I have guy friends spread out through the city, but they are busy with their own things right now and I can't spend much time with them. I also have some work friends, but many of them have significant others and aren't very enthusiastic about regular get-togethers and such.

I really dread weekends, too. I need to plan more stuff to do. I'm still in this "college Saturday" mode where I don't plan activities or anything and so I spend the majority of my day on the couch waiting around for someone to call me up and tell me what the plan is for night.

That usually would involve drinking in some crowded place that I don't really enjoy because of my social fears. I just get no value out of those places. You would think it would be fun to go out and flirt with girls, but I'm such a NG that I wasn't even able to do that in college when there really was an abundance of beautiful women.

All this time to myself gives me time to think about my attachments. Attachments that have essentially kept me tied to NG thinking.

The most dominant attachment is the one to my family. To be honest, they don't have much to offer me at this stage in my life except the occasional tip on how to fix something around the apartment. Yet I talk to them so much, partly to fill their emotional need to speak to me, but as I've recently found it's moreso to fill MY need to get approval from them about what I do in my life, and also to ease the fears of isolation that I have.

As Bradshaw puts it, this keeps me tied to my "traditional family role" of being the successful child - the "star" of the family. It really has bolstered my NG belief that I must be perfect and it's not OK to fail or to make mistakes.

I didn't know it until I started listening to Homecoming, but I really do have fears of being 100% on my own. I grew up with 3 siblings, and my younger brother and I shared a room until I was 10. I always split a room with a roommate in college. I've always been in a house or apartment full of people. I suppose I'm just having adjustment issues, but the feelings of isolation are translating to inexplicable sadness and loneliness. I'm finding excuses every evening to go out somewhere just so I don't stay in my apartment.

I decided last week that I would stop talking to family so much (once or twice a day) and really get a feel for going it alone - especially since I work on this NG recovery plan.

[Making_A_Mark]

Another thing that has been on my mind often and brings me regret/sadness is the fact that things didn't pan out with my most recent female interest.

I met this girl, S, through a mutual friend when I was visiting Austin one weekend. We hit it off so well. Such incredible chemistry. Same culture, same religion, same dialect of Arabic, and personalities that really mesh well. She grew up in the Middle East but went on American private school so she was very Americanized. She moved here a couple years ago for college and is coincidentally roommates with our mutual friend.

I couldn't believe it, because this kind of connection almost NEVER happens in my life. Female attention is rare for me as it is, and here is a girl that I not only click with, but all the background things fall into place as well. It's a no brainer that I got excited. Then I find out she is just as interested in me! Is it strange that I wanted to dive in with her headfirst considering these initial circumstances!?

To some degree, I made an attachment to her in my mind since Day 1. We saw each other again that very weekend. Every other weekend afterward, I would visit Austin again to see her. Of course I used the excuse that I was going to see my family, which I did, but mainly I wanted to spend time with her. I felt it was going great, even though I knew I was taking it too fast. There was no funny business at all - maybe a couple of kisses, but definitely nothing physical.

This naturally lead to the "what's going on here" talk...And then we find out the circumstances aren't so ideal after all. First of all she lives in a different city. Sure, I visit Austin often but still - there is that distance. I'm 24, she's 21 and still in school. Not a terrible age difference, but she is THAT age. Having legit guy options is certainly not her priority. School is her priority, and experiencing the US life is second. She prefers having NO option, in fact. In effect, she doesn't know what she wants right now - just that she doesn't want to consider anything serious until much later. Oh, did I forget to mention she got out of a serious 8 year relationship only 6 months ago? Top this all off with the fact that she expects to move back overseas after she's done studying.

How many dealbreakers did you count in that last paragraph?

So what's a NG to do in this situation? These are things I found out back in February. If your answer is "deny the circumstances and push for something romantic anyways" then you are correct! So I sat her down several times and slowly tried to ease in what I wanted from her. First I said "yeah serious isn't a good idea" but still held on to the expectation that she'd go out of her way to see me when I visited town. When she didn't do that, I of course got frustrated - my covert contract with her wasn't fulfilled. All the effort I put in to take her around and see her when I went to Austin didn't yield returns on my investment.

And of course, I was indirect with communicating that I was frustrated. Insert typical NG victim puke here.

After I read NMMNG a couple weeks ago, I saw her the following weekend and was actually able to communicate exactly what I wanted. It came out resentful and a little bitter, and I even refused to hang out with her after I was done. So childish, and not my best moment. But at least I communicate what I wanted. Doing so allowed me to step back and really see where the signs were pointing since the beginning. This isn't gonna work, and I need to back out.

The next day I called her and told her that we should continue on as friends only. She's never lied about the fact that she's interested, but she's just been more aware of the bad timing of this whole situation and has accepted that reality since the beginning. I've just been in denial. I didn't want to throw this connection away, not without trying. It's the scarcity mentality I have telling me that if I don't get her now, I never will. And that's not true...I know it can still happen. It's really not likely, but I didn't mess it up so bad that it can't happen.

The key is, I must detach from that outcome 100%. I must forget her and not regret that I couldn't get into anything serious with her. There really is a chance for it to pan out in the future, but I can't let that chance haunt me every day like it has. It's just that all this time myself, and all this focus on myself and my behaviors has really made me think about it a lot. And it's made me think about how so many NG behaviors surfaced and flourished all because I was so attracted to her and wanted her approval and love.

I haven't talked to her once since last week. I've decided to cut contact with her, especially as I do this NG recovery. The thing is, I genuinely do want to be able to maintain a friendship with her. I won't let myself do that though if I keep thinking about what could have been. Maybe I have to let her go entirely. Now the problem is dealing with and moving past these regretful/sad feelings I have about the situation. It's like I miss her, I want her, and I never even had the right to get so attached. I can enumerate so many NG behaviors exhibited clearly in this story, as I'm sure you can.

But I won't, because that won't help me now.

I'm just frustrated with having no women. That frustration has developed into resentment, and I know it. I just don't know how it's supposed to all dissipate. I need to keep faith and keep doing this work.

[RufWarrior]

Look up my threads about a pedastel girl, from 2003 to 2005. I wasted 4 years pandering for a girl with similarities like you did. My plan is to keep this from happening to you.

About the frustration with no women -- please read threads on the Married board. These guys have women but don't seem to be real happy. Not sure you realize that having a woman in your life is a LOT of work. Also, no women unless you have plenty of guy friends first. So start making new friends. I think your thirst for a woman is actually thirsting for companionship, like better guy friends.

If I was single today, the last thing I would do would be to look for a woman. I'd do all the hobbies I don't have time for anymore. what are the hobbies you want to do?

[Making_A_Mark]

You're right again Ruf... I've just been so desperate for a woman for not only the companionship, but also the ultimate approval (through sex of course). But even more so, I just want the feeling that girls are interested in me, even though I choose not to get with any of them. It's amazing what having that one middle eastern girl interested in me did for my outlook on life - my joy, my excitement. Now it all feels shot down. Wow, I really am a NG aren't I?

Having none of that for so long really lets the toxic shame sink in deeper and deeper, and it makes me wonder what's so wrong about myself that I can't even get a girl.

Again, that's why that particular girl situation is what finally led me to find NMMNG and this support group.

For the past couple of years, my hobbies have mainly been introverted and individual. Things like music, reading, etc. I even consider working out at the gym a hobby, which I do regularly (and I'm grateful for that at least), but that's also a lonely one.

I'm now exploring some more active hobbies - sports, rock climbing, hiking, etc. But I don't want to spend all this time getting just "OK" at all things. I want to find something to really get good at, I just don't know what that is yet...

[GT17]

Welcome aboard and congrats. I appreciate your raw honesty.
Would you say you needy and compelled to put up a false front to please others?

The key is stand in your own truth and act from a place of integrity and passion about what is really best for you and your life. There is a balancing act, so you can be true to yourself without slipping over into being any kind of, say, oblivious asshole or jerk who is blind to the people around him. But you also should not be a people pleaser.

Sometimes we are our own worst enemy. Do you follow me?

I think you are headed down a beautiful direction.

[SnapRoll]

Originally Posted by DarkStar

Nice work on BFE 3 man. And welcome, by the way.

+1

Keep at it!

[Making_A_Mark]

Originally Posted by GT17

Would you say you needy and compelled to put up a false front to please others?

The key is stand in your own truth and act from a place of integrity and passion about what is really best for you and your life. There is a balancing act, so you can be true to yourself without slipping over into being any kind of, say, oblivious asshole or jerk who is blind to the people around him. But you also should not be a people pleaser.

Sometimes we are our own worst enemy. Do you follow me?

Yes, I am extremely needy and have been putting up a false front (based on the people I'm around) since adolescence at least. These traits are especially pronounced before/during/after any kind of girl situation like the one I described above.

The path I've taken so far - doing good in school, being the smart honor student, becoming an engineering major in college - these are all choices that someone else decided is best for me. I didn't decide they were best for myself, and that's the problem.

Now that I have the degree, I've got the decent job, I'm realizing that I don't have my own purpose yet. I don't know what's best for me, and I've never really gotten the chance to explore that for myself. It's time to do just that.

[revo]

I think you are doing good. You are still very young. Most young guys are not very self aware that usually comes later in life if at all. You have recognized these NG issues early on. You will have a jump on other guys.

I would suggest you not contact her. Not text or phone. Then when you have plans in Austin just call her up and invite her along with no expectations. Remember she does not want anything serious and you should not want anything serious since you should be on moratorium.

Then just observe what happens. No outcome to worry about. One of Dr. Glover's best posts was on being conscious. Just be aware of what happens and how you react. Good or bad just be conscious.

[DarkStar]

Hey Mark, nice work in getting all this stuff out. You're really wise to be taking the time to do this work right now instead of trying to chase the girl.

I've just been so desperate for a woman for not only the companionship, but also the ultimate approval (through sex of course). But even more so, I just want the feeling that girls are interested in me, even though I choose not to get with any of them. It's amazing what having that one middle eastern girl interested in me did for my outlook on life - my joy, my excitement. Now it all feels shot down. Wow, I really am a NG aren't I?

It's crazy... I was this way for as long as I could remember, and you already know how it all came to a massive climax right before I came here, as it did with you. The amazing thing is that after sticking through the dating & porn moratorium (despite some slip-ups) and getting through Anderson, this dependency feels pretty much gone right now, and I'm now excited to work on my life for me.

It truly has done wonders for my spirits. Now when I see an attractive woman, I don't get that sense of beating myself up for lack of game; I don't feel the pressure to go say something. I take notice but I realize there are a million more out there just waiting for me to graduate from Ruf's plan and end my dating moratorium.

It is a beautiful thing and has made me appreciate myself more and the fact that I am on the road to getting the life I want without the need for a woman to help get me there. I have a lot further to go but it helps a lot to know that it's working.

You're now on the road to recovery as well and that is great to see. Embrace your alone-ness on those Saturdays by diving into this work full force. Know that in 6 months, or however long it will be, you'll eventually emerge from Ruf's plan with the tools, strategy and support to ramp up your dating life in a way that won't leave you reeling from every little incident where the girl doesn't say exactly what you had hoped she'd say.

More importantly, you'll learn that you are the prize, and a woman who wants that prize will need to earn it, because once you have discovered it you'll want it for yourself and won't be in a big hurry to give it away to the first hottie willing to be nice to you.

These are some of the things keeping me going right now. I'm glad you're here and I'm looking forward to following your journey.

[Making_A_Mark]

Originally Posted by DarkStar

It's crazy... I was this way for as long as I could remember, and you already know how it all came to a massive climax right before I came here, as it did with you. The amazing thing is that after sticking through the dating & porn moratorium (despite some slip-ups) and getting through Anderson, this dependency feels pretty much gone right now, and I'm now excited to work on my life for me.

It truly has done wonders for my spirits. Now when I see an attractive woman, I don't get that sense of beating myself up for lack of game; I don't feel the pressure to go say something. I take notice but I realize there are a million more out there just waiting for me to graduate from Ruf's plan and end my dating moratorium.

It is a beautiful thing and has made me appreciate myself more and the fact that I am on the road to getting the life I want without the need for a woman to help get me there. I have a lot further to go but it helps a lot to know that it's working.

You're now on the road to recovery as well and that is great to see. Embrace your alone-ness on those Saturdays by diving into this work full force. Know that in 6 months, or however long it will be, you'll eventually emerge from Ruf's plan with the tools, strategy and support to ramp up your dating life in a way that won't leave you reeling from every little incident where the girl doesn't say exactly what you had hoped she'd say.

More importantly, you'll learn that you are the prize, and a woman who wants that prize will need to earn it, because once you have discovered it you'll want it for yourself and won't be in a big hurry to give it away to the first hottie willing to be nice to you.

These are some of the things keeping me going right now. I'm glad you're here and I'm looking forward to following your journey.

Thanks for the motivation, man! I'm going to be backtracking through your thread soon and seeing how you've come along. It helps more than you guys know that you've been logging your progress so well - hopefully I can be smart and learn from your experiences.

I do have a habit of beating myself up for having no game around beautiful girls, especially when they're friends of friends and I have that in with them that complete strangers don't. This makes going out on the weekends not so fun and makes me use alcohol as a crutch, as if it's going to cure my frustrations and social anxiety (it doesn't)...It also makes me frustrated and resentful any time I'm hanging around friends with significant others. I'm hoping that a voluntary flirting/dating moratorium will change my perspective!

I want to get to the same point as you - not needing a woman, but having the options! I think that fits into any man's purpose.

My uncle once told me: "The first thing a man wants in life is a woman. The second thing is a son." I don't know if that holds, but damn...when I want a woman, I really want one!!

I do want to be the prize. I want to be something that women have to work for more than I work for them. But that takes doing work of my own, and becoming my own champion of sorts...so here I go!

[HustleAndFlow]

Mark D,

Welcome to the boards. A little advice for you since you will be going through Ruf's plan as well.

Keep at it, and be as honest and open as you can. It doesn't seem you have a problem with that so far so that's great. It really helps you to get to the bottom of what's holding you back.

Also, don't get discouraged. You will probably find this work to be somewhat addicting, because it really starts to make you feel good about yourself quickly. But you will go through highs and lows emotionally, just be aware of it. You will learn the tools to deal with it all properly through the work.

On Anderson, take your time and let it all soak in. This I am convinced is the key to getting your mind right.

On everyone here, we all have different experiences, but have likely gone through or experienced very similar things in our lives and can relate to you. We are all here to help eachother, even if that means hitting you in the head with a 2x4. I have a few concussions myself. hah

Good luck man, I hope you get everything you want out of this.

[Making_A_Mark]

Originally Posted by HustleAndFlow

Mark D,

Welcome to the boards. A little advice for you since you will be going through Ruf's plan as well.

Keep at it, and be as honest and open as you can. It doesn't seem you have a problem with that so far so that's great. It really helps you to get to the bottom of what's holding you back.

Also, don't get discouraged. You will probably find this work to be somewhat addicting, because it really starts to make you feel good about yourself quickly. But you will go through highs and lows emotionally, just be aware of it. You will learn the tools to deal with it all properly through the work.

On Anderson, take your time and let it all soak in. This I am convinced is the key to getting your mind right.

On everyone here, we all have different experiences, but have likely gone through or experienced very similar things in our lives and can relate to you. We are all here to help eachother, even if that means hitting you in the head with a 2x4. I have a few concussions myself. hah

Good luck man, I hope you get everything you want out of this.

I will get discouraged at times. It's just my nature. But I know I will persist with it because if anything, I do have some amazing willpower when I'm driven to a goal like I am now. In that sense, yes, I am getting addicted to this work because it has more value to me than any other hobby at the moment.

That's not to say I won't be maintaining a life outside of this. I know it's easy to fall into the trap of using these forums and reading materials as excuses for staying in and hiding from the real world, so I will instead view it as a supplement/boost to help me integrate into the real world.

[RufWarrior]

I wasn't sure if I was going to recommend Anderson due to his young age. On the other hand, he does have a lot to work through, perhaps beyond what Bradshaw can do.

[Making_A_Mark]

I keep seeing references to a Susan Anderson work book - what are you all referring to exactly?

[DarkStar]

Originally Posted by Making_A_Mark

I keep seeing references to a Susan Anderson work book - what are you all referring to exactly?

That is the "Journey From Heartbreak to Connection" book referenced in Ruf's plan, and it's also where the "Abandoholics" article in Ruf's plan came from.

Check out the Abandoholic article and if you post your reaction to it, that may help Ruf decide if it's appropriate for you to do the whole workbook.