Negativity Toward Women

[DrGlover]

Originally Posted by Gargantuan

I suppose the healthier mindset would be "sane until proven psycho." That seems more positive, but I can't help but feel like that's being naive.

Why is that naive? Give every person the benefit of the doubt until they prover otherwise. Be a discerning person. It takes a little work, but that's on you.

Being negative and assuming the worst isn't at all helpful. You will just attract what you believe.

Robert

[DrGlover]

Originally Posted by For Me

Of course I was angry at them, THEY were responsible for all MY unhappiness and problems... until I learned, "Nope, it was me"...

Yep!

[DrGlover]

Originally Posted by thenyteowl

the power to walk away.

This is what allows us to take the chance of getting close to an imperfect person.

Robert

[DrGlover]

Originally Posted by curiousone

dr. g, how did you work on your mom issues, if i may ask? i've been in therapy for a long time, and frankly it's not clear how well i've done at this, or how effective it's been.

I didn't talk to my mother for 15 years. When I realized my negative attitude toward my mother was harming me and affecting my relationships with women, I began by letting go of my negativity. Then I began a "gratitude" practice for every significant person who had ever entered my life. They were all imperfect and had loved me imperfectly. Instead of focusing on that, I began a practice of being grateful for the gifts they gave me and the ways they loved me. That began to turn things around. Then my father had a stroke and died about two weeks later. I spent those two weeks with my mother in the hospital and hospice every day. We talked about our issues and got past them. Now I am grateful for the relationship I have with my mother. It feels loving, boundaried, and respectful. Mostly, my mother is fun and smart (we are a lot alike), and I enjoy spending time with her.

i guess my most negative association with women is that they are incapable of controlling themselves, out of control, and therefore can't really be trusted. and i wonder if it's their job to really be consistent, anyway, or if that's just a wish i have leftover from a childhood laced with inconsistency and roller-coaster methods of showing love.

The feminine is the weather. If you are going to hang out with a woman, you better bring an umbrella. Just don't curse the weather. It is what it is.

Robert

[DrGlover]

Originally Posted by Tomson

I'm not sure that is a healthy mindset. I think you have to view all relationships as a stove that's turned on. The danger of being burned is always there irrespective of whether either person is toxic or not. The naive view would be to think that anything worthwhile has no risks. The positive view is to believe that you can handle any situation that comes along and come out the other side a better person.

I like this!

[DrGlover]

Originally Posted by watcezfas

How?

How do I deal with my negative view of women? You have done a good job of defining a problem, but there is nothing much (as far as specific how to's?) on how to deal with them.

A good starting point is David Deida's "The Way of the Superior Man"

[DrGlover]

Originally Posted by bmcheddar

I can't stand my mother. She's rude, obnoxious at times, and I think she manipulates me. I can't even have a conversation with her about anything as she will immediately get defensive and start screaming and be completely irrational. This is my fault though for living at home at age 24, but I have few other options at the moment. I don't hold anger towards women in general though unless it's subconscious. I am worried that a woman will turn psycho on me if I get in a relationship (I've never had one).

Based on the relationship you describe with your mother, I can understand why you've never ventured into a relationship with another woman.

There are always options. Until you are willing and able to remove yourself from a toxic situation, you will always feel helpless (and resentful).

Robert

[DrGlover]

Originally Posted by Montecristo

Is that the same woman you dedicated your book to? It`s interesting how when we are in abusive relationships, be it romantic, at work or with friends, we are willing to lie to ourselves and reframe and tolerate bad behavior.

Same woman. We split about 6 months before the book was published. I am grateful for her. I might still be a hopeless Nice Guy if not for her.

Try to find a way to grateful for every experience in life. It beats feeling resentful. Education is expensive. It always comes at a price. Embrace that.

Robert

[princevaliant]

Why are we negative towards women? We're just giving back to them what they give to us. I continually venture into the most rejection ridden arena there is which is the New York Argentine tango scene. On any night there you will see at least a dozen or more beautiful, young tangueras waiting for their chance to dance with the hot young local dancers and will reject all others for hours at a time, This is a microcosim of the overall feeling among young women that there are just not enough quality guys out there, as 55 to 60 percent of new college grads are women, and they are NOT going to settle. So they spit in our eye and tell us we're not good enough, what are we supposed to do, life is not a movie, we don't have screenwriters on demand supplying witty comebacks. One older advice guy said to watch EVERY Cary Grant movie and remember ALL of his witty lines. And for what??? My brother once said, a woman can s---- you only so good.

[For Me]

Originally Posted by princevaliant

We're just giving back to them what they give to us.

This being your first post... and your entitled to your opinion... just not sure if your 'opinion' is grounded in NMMNG. Did you read the book and do the exercises? Your tit-for-tat response makes me go hmmmmmmm?

[Tomson]

Originally Posted by princevaliant

This is a microcosim of the overall feeling among young women that there are just not enough quality guys out there...

You have highlighted a problem but negativity towards women isn't the solution. We've seen a fair few videos on this forum by women criticising feminism and encouraging other women to be more supportive but they always leave me cold because the only way we can fix the problem is by taking our role more seriously. These young women have a point however unfair we might think it is and the only way we can properly counter this perception is to man up and put our house in order.

Admittedly the problems lie with both sides but the only person you can change is yourself.

[Matt007]

The biggest issue I have outside of my abandonment stuff, which i'm working on actively, is trust. I still to this day struggle with the whole concept of what a woman says isn't necessarily what she means. The whole watch what they do as opposed to what they say thing. I know as men our word is our bond and we speak plainly (generally), and women are emotional and react at the the time, my issue is how are you able to rely on someone/something that could change within 24hrs? How are you supposed to plan, make commitments etc when it appears as though they are all unable to be relied upon? I know this is MY issue, I own it, I'm trying to find ways of changing this self limiting belief. I read Deida, it didn't resonate with me, my initial thought on the whole dont listen to a womans words thing was, cop out, take responsibility for congruence between words and actions, stop making excuses. Yes, I realise this is also a SLB and holding someone to MY standards.. I guess I'm struggling to find ways of changing them..

[TaoZen]

I am late to this discussion and I regret having missed most of it. I have been trying to figure out how to contribute to this in a short meaningful way and have very little time to focus on this stuff right now. Still, I think finding a way to express myself on this will help to gel my own thoughts around this. I can only hope it helps others do the same somehow.


I have come around to the idea that what I have experienced is in part due to many of the people around me being emotionally unhealthy. The knowledge of that is rooted in the idea of the core wound and the toxically shamed. This is my own source of unhealthy emotional processes and I believe there are a lot of people who have experienced the same to one degree or another. The real difference is how deeply wounded are they and how likely they are to have worked their way out of that on their own. I have tremendous sympathy for everyone who is core wounded but I have less tolerance for those who are unwilling to step up to the battle.

My past experiences with emotionally unhealthy women has left me with feelings of animosity but not toward all women. I hold on to the belief that there are healthy women as well as unhealthy ones and that the real problem was that I had been predisposed to seek the unhealthy ones, either by my own behaviors or by my sense of what was "normal". Once I realized this, I set out to change things from that perspective. To be fair, my experience with emotionally unhealthy people hasn't been restricted to women only. Not even close, so I guess I have to believe that there is someone who is emotionally healthy somewhere, right?

So this has put the task of "fixing this" directly in my hands. I think I instinctively knew that my ability to attract and bring emotionally healthy people into my life depended on my getting emotionally healthy first. That just made sense. There is still a lot of work to do, recognizing what is and isn't emotionally unhealthy is still a bit rough, knowing how to apply it in my own life and what to do about it when I see it in others is also a practice that is developing, and basically figuring out how to make the life I want for myself out what I am learning still requires a lot of trust and confidence in my ability to see it through. This is one area where I excel so I have no worries there but the ride does get rough sometimes.

At first, and for a long time during this process, I had a sense that I could never get "healthy" enough myself to even interest an emotionally healthy and balanced woman. I am starting to move past that SLB now and am developing a sense of self confidence in the work that I have been doing. That is starting to feel good and means that I am making progress.

Now, I find that the lingering sense of resentment and, yes, the sense of fear of somehow finding myself back in that mess yet again, is coming through in the form of a personal debate about whether it is even worth the effort to try again. It is proving to be an interesting debate and I am not sure who is going to win, me or me.

[spartacus80202]

I messed up. I got close to someone who is not emotionally healthy and got attached. I saw the warning signs and assumed that she would be motivated to change. I was wayyyyyy wrong! Getting screwed around on by someone I care about is hard to take. I keep wondering what if. What if I didnt this different or that different where would I be. I feel at this moment that I lost out on the potential of who I hoped she was. She is incredibly charming and sexy and had me convinced that she was motivated to be a better person.

UUUGHHHH

I feel like I should know better.

[GT17]

Brilliant thread going on here. I wonder if my cynicism and mistrust of women is making
me fearful or self-conscious around them.

Does this make sense?