Let's Work Together

[DrGlover]

Everyone is stressed. Pick up a newspaper, turn on the radio, watch the evening news, gather around the water cooler at work. Everywhere you turn; there is bad news, anxiety, and fear.

Our minds absorb all the negative messages and spin and ruminate. We fall asleep thinking about where things are going and wake up wondering how we’re going to handle it.

Maybe you have already felt the affect of these challenging economic times. Chances are you’ve seen your retirement account or investments shrink. If you own a home, it has probably lost value. Perhaps you are one of the growing numbers of workers who have been “downsized” at work. At a very minimum, you have probably struggled with anxiety, doubt, or even depression due to the current global uncertainty.

We’re all in the same boat. Rich and poor. Young and old. Hourly, salaried, commissioned, or self-employed. We are all joined in a struggle to sort out our financial future and keep our minds from driving us crazy.

I listen to other people’s anxieties on a daily basis. I struggle like everybody else with the 24/7 barrage of bad news. I know this might sound kind of crazy, but I am as excited and optimistic as I have ever been in my entire life. Here’s why.

I see what is happening world-wide as an amazing opportunity to both change a seemingly universal culture of materialism and entitlement (at least in Western nations) and give each of us a unique opportunity to transform ourselves personally in unprecedented ways.

I don’t know where things are going. No one does -- that’s good news.

I’ve always said that there are very few crises in life severe enough to break us free from old ways of thinking and acting to find new, more powerful ways to live. As long as life feels manageable enough, we hang on to our familiar ways of doing things -- even when they aren’t all that effective.

Hitting bottom with an addiction, losing a loved one, facing a terminal illness, a pending divorce, going to war -- all present the kind of shock to the system that open us up to the possibility of real change. I think the prospect of a global economic meltdown can be one of these life changing crises we seize to move our lives forward in ways we’d never imagined possible.

It is during crisis that we most want to hang on to what is familiar. Our natural tendency is to hunker down and do more of the same. We isolate, eat more, drink more, or spend more. We waste more time watching television or surfing the internet. We complain, play the victim, pull the covers over our head. We procrastinate and avoid -- which just make the problems worse.

That’s the beauty of a true crisis -- our old ways of thinking and being don’t work anymore. The bright light of reality shows their fundamental ineffectiveness. It is during these times that we get to choose: Do more of the same hoping for different results (insanity), or seek new, creative alternatives and options.

I see these challenging economic times as an opportunity for all of us to challenge ourselves to more effectively soothe our minds, face our fears, think outside the box, and try some new things that we would have never tried otherwise. I also see these challenging times as an opportunity to work together to accomplish these goals.

I have added this new discussion thread to the online forum to provide a place where you can post ways you have found to not just survive the current challenging economic times, but how to transform ourselves and make the world a better place at the same time.

Feel free to start discussion threads to ask questions or share what you are learning and doing to transform yourself, prosper, and help your fellow man. Share examples of how you have learned to soothe yourself, live with less, save, demonstrate your value at work, become an entrepreneur, turn negatives into positives, become more generous, think abundantly, lend a helping hand.

No whining, complaining, or negative thinking allowed here. This is a place where we can support and encourage each other in our shared journey of abundance, resiliency, and transformation.

Dr. Robert Glover

[AndrewG]

I have found I feel the same way.

This time, right now, is the BIGGEST opportunity of our generation.

Stock prices have tumbled to all time lows - so go and buy!

If you want to expand a business - times have never been better!

Case in point - I am part owner of an engineering firm, and right now, despite some layoffs and putting everyone on a 4 day work week, we are looking at aquisitions more seriously then ever. There has never been a better time to go knocking on doors of single person engineering firms who may be near retirement - they will sell, and sell quickly for a reasonable price.

Looking to hire new talent? Well, the perspective employee pool is getting deeper by the day. Even six months ago, it was next to impossible to find trained, qualified staff. Now, if you advertise a job, you can pick from multiple applicants.

Here's the truth of the matter - our market economy is governed by two things - fear and greed. The "fear" side of things is in control right now, butit won't last. The true basis of the world economy is people - people working hard and using their brains to create value - and there are still a lot of people out there - they just need to be put back to work creating value and the economy WILL come back.

Say it with me now - the economy WILL come back - let that colour your thinking and go buy some undervalued stocks!

[passivenomore]

Great post Dr. G.

I was guity of following the herd mentality of the sky is falling crowd. Two things I did recently was 1) cancelled my local paper and 2) I quit watching the news. It may seem kind of a head in the sand approach, but I feel much more relieved not hearing about all of the doom and gloom. I have also noticed that there is not much doom and gloom around me, at least not like what you see or hear about in the news.

Another thing I did was start concentrating on completing tasks, getting "all in" as you would say, and making a conscious effort to be in the present. What a world of difference it has made doing those things. I notice and appreciate all those around me, and I can give to thm in ways I never would before.

I have a long term invention that has been halted from lack of enthusiasm. I picked it back up and am completing it with real momentum now. I will complete the patent for the idea soon and be shopping for investors shortly. I am very excited to know that I am going to follow through with this one, after letting so many ideas fade away. It may fail, but it won't be from a lack of trying, and I am confident that it has a place in the world, and that it is my job to bring it to fruition.

Bad times are here for sure, but they will not last.

My father has a great saying that tough times never last, but tough people do. I like that. I can be tough and make it through just about anything now.

[RefDad]

If you study history, you will see that the economy has always been cyclical. This may end up being a "hundred year storm" in terms of economic downturn. It is as natural as the seasons, and is fueled by fear and greed, as was mentioned above.

If you look at your situation, nothing fundamental has changed. Real estate still has value, work creates wealth, and supply and demand determine price. Confidence is the X factor, and that is largely determined by emotion, not logic. Emotions are fickle and will change, but the fundamental principles of economics do not.

There is always plenty of opportunity, AKA abundance. It's time to buy stock, start a business, hire employees, and invest in your retirement!

When my wife moved out, I had an initial burst of energy to fix up the house. I did a few quick things that made a big difference. Then I got a little depressed after the holidays, and started to slack off. Now I'm turning over a new leaf. I'm re-committing to fixing the place up. All the home improvement stores are having huge sales, and contractors are cutting their rates. I've got plans to re-model the kitchen and the kid's bathroom. I'll move forward a little at a time. In a down housing market, improving what you've got makes the most sense. I've completely set my marital issues aside and am working on myself and my environment, and I truly don't care what my spouse thinks about it.

The cycle continues, and it's always darkest before the dawn!

[DLR]

I know today's economy shook me out of some old habits - like working for money (instead of the other way around), and believing my self "too poor" to invest.

My wife is unemployed, so our household income is about half what it was a year ago. Yet, with a new mindset ("ten years from now, I will not be living paycheck to paycheck"), and some help from friends & family..... my entire financial paradigm has changed. Even in these tough times, I CAN afford to invest....and I'm making it happen.

....especially since Wall Street is having a "90% off" sale!

[DIZZY]

I am prospering in this effed up economy. Want to know how? Well, I write software for a living, working for a company that builds software for various niches of the legal profession. Just before things completely turned to shite last fall, I was moved on to a team (sort of a promotion) building a new software product for managing Chapter 11 Bankruptcy cases, and our business is booming, lol! One of the first firms that will be using the product we're building is a little company you may have heard of called Lehman Brothers, by far the largest bankruptcy filing in US history, so far. We're under a lot of pressure and I'm currently working 60-70 hr weeks along w/ the rest of our team to get the product to market ASAP, but we've been told if we succeed, it will be made worth our while. It sucks to be a lot of you right now, and you have my sympathy, but it's pretty damn cool to be me at the moment...

I changed my financial philosophy aboot 2 years ago when I started paying attention to Dave Ramsey. Since then I stopped using credit cards and paid off all my credit card debt, built an emergency fund, and am working on paying down my giant student loan debt. My money no longer happens to me, I happen to it. Some tips I've picked up from Dave about the current state of things...

- if you think you have a better than 1 in 3 chance of losing your job and your family depends on your income, stop spending and investing and start stockpiling CASH, now(!) If you're smart and responsible, you will survive until you find your next job, which will possibly turn out to be better than the one you were so scared of losing.

- stay positive. If watching CNN makes you feel like going chicken little, turn it off and go for a walk.

-in general, not just when the economy sucks, ALWAYS LIVE ON LESS THAN YOU MAKE. Borrowing money makes you a slave, while using cash for major purchases keeps you in a position of power. I bought myself a nice new PC for Christmas using cash, and it felt SO much better than buying a PC for my ex-wife 3 years ago (when we were together) using a credit card, and was still stuck paying interest on it 2 years later...

Another thought of my own is that if you happen to have gobs of cash (I don't), this is the perfect time to follow Warren Buffett's example and do a wide variety of investing. I arrive at this conclusion using what I would call Pascal logic. Either (1) the economy will completely collapse, in which case all our assets will be virtually worthless and we're all screwed anyway, or (2) much more likely, the economy will eventually rebound, in which case while you may take a financial hit in the short term, much of the stuff you invest in now will eventually explode in value again, and you'll be in a great spot.

Good luck to all of you. Make your own luck whenever possible.

[Peterr]

Some thoughts and suggestions...

A great time to do for others. I'm going to start giving blood

I've come across a cd entitled 'Crisis' by Laura Day that seems to echo some of what Dr. Glover is talking about and is worth listening to.

I also think its time for a nation-wide head/assectomy to be performed as in pull your head out of your ass and get on with it!

"We are not descended from fearful men..." Edward R. Murrow

"...pick myself up and get back in the race..." Frank Sinatra - "Thats Life"

[chevy1947]

Originally Posted by Peterr

Some thoughts and suggestions...

A great time to do for others. I'm going to start giving blood

I've come across a cd entitled 'Crisis' by Laura Day that seems to echo some of what Dr. Glover is talking about and is worth listening to.

I also think its time for a nation-wide head/assectomy to be performed as in pull your head out of your ass and get on with it!

"We are not descended from fearful men..." Edward R. Murrow

"...pick myself up and get back in the race..." Frank Sinatra - "Thats Life"

Peter:

Notice this is your first post, welcome aboard.

Andrew: I would invest because it is a good time to get things but I am one of the guys hanging on by their fingernails, I have family and things to pay for I cannot avoid so I am in suck it up mode and hunkering down and riding out the storm as best I can. Hopefully my business will survive and i have my doubts but I won't go without trying and doing everything possible.

good thread

[Scoundrel]

I am actually thriving. Who do I have to thank for that?

1. My Dad. Last year, he helped me get the last of my credit cards paid off. He also gave me a loan when I was looking for a house. I ended up not buying a house just yet, but have built on that loan to create a very comfortable savings. He's been advising me on financial matters for years.

2. Dr. Robert Glover. Most of the financial difficulties I had were the result of trying to buy approval. Usually it was treating friends to dinner and drinks, especially guys I was interested in, but who only wanted to be friends. I would get calls or be stopped on the sidewalk by charity canvasers, and would always make a donation, become a member or whatever. Since reading NMMNG, I have turned this around. I still give to some charities, but only those I most want to support. And I don't give just so that the person will "like me."

3. Suze Orman. I know that there are a lot of financial "gurus" out there, but Suze's approach is very much about controlling your money, not letting it control you. One of the exercises from an audio program was to recall your earliest memory about money, and what emotions or beliefs (especially self limiting ones) these memories created. Thus, I discovered my compulsion with the credit cards, because I learned early on that "I don't have enough" and better get things while I can.

[upthecrick]

I survived the companies 1000 person layoff,

next week I will hear what my bonus and yearly raise will be. I am thankful that I have not lost my job. But I do think, if I want to change companies that now is the time to do so, after all, the economy cannot get much lower and at some point companies will have to start hiring back.

I do not own a house yet, but housing prices outside of the seattle area have fallen tremendously. ( not so much inside seattle ) I anticipate that I may by a house later this year.

It's still all good news, though. Gas prices are down which means cheaper air fares this summer and more abundant travel plans. There is also an abundance of meetup group activities that have lost cost get togethers. ( $5-10)

I am lucky, that while everyone was spending themselves into debt by buying new TV's and condos, I put that money into savings and investments.

[Woden]

The Doc's right. The economy will turn around, it's only a matter of time. I'm hoping sometime this year, before the winter season in Nov/Dec anyway...another winter of this would be too harsh. But in the end, even if it lasts into 2010 or beyond, the economy will turn around. A lot of things will shake out, there will be a lot of fat trimming, but it's probably long overdue.

One of my friends went from full time to part time, it's given him incentive to look at his bills and trim or eliminate what he can...something he admits he should have done a long time ago.

Don't get all caught up in the gloom and doom you hear on the news. Yes, things are bad. It's possible they might get worse. But things will eventually turn around, they'll get better. I'm looking at this as an opportunity. For one, I was planning on getting a new car this year, now I'm hearing that Congress may institute a tax rebate if you buy a new car, sweet! Also, when my child support ends in May, I'm planning to (finally) start my 401K...let's fact it, the stock market's gotta go up sometime! And the one thing I've always wanted to do is buy a new house, now housing prices are becoming more reasonable and it's a true buyer's market...plus I'm eligible for a VA loan, which is no money down!

Personally, I'm doing well, matter of fact in December I hit the three year mark. So I got bumped up to full rate...yes, I actually got a raise! Plus I now earn time-and-a-half for any hours over 40. And I'm still working more than 40 hours a week.

Being a trucker, I've already seen Jevic go completely under. Add to that, Yellow & Roadway were in the process of merging when the economic fecal matter hit the spinning blades. Their union has had to vote in a pay cut to prevent layoffs, but I think it's only a matter of time for them.

My company's ideally positioned. When things weren't looking so hot last spring, we instituted a hiring freeze that's still in effect. So basically, we lost a few people through attrition, and just went through a layoff (100 drivers company wide, including 5 at my terminal). I'm still very, very safe, they'd have to lay off another 100 easy to even get close to me. Even better, our company's still operating in the black, plus we're privately owned, not traded on the stock market, which makes me feel a bit more stable.

[Nomad]

As for Credit Cards.

Its not wrong to use them. Its wrong to use them and not pay them off. Big difference.

In fact if you are wise credit cards work in your advantage as is creates credit history as well as many if not most have some sort of reward program.

But then for some it might be like giving a drink to an alcoholic.

Credit cards are fine and probably preferable in most situations. If you can handle your money.


Overall what can I say. This is a great thread. Its great to see the positivity and people looking for that silver lining. It really is an opportunity for change. For me couple with higher prices in camera equipement means I wont blow the 1000's i would on new equipment and suffice with what I have.

I think also that we will see a change in terms of collectivist attitudes towards society. More people will be in the same boat and will be working together to help each other. Theres nothing like a crises to help create a bond.

Maybe we should start a NMMNG Fund. Pool everyones money together and buy wall street!

[DIZZY]

Originally Posted by Nomad

As for Credit Cards.

Its not wrong to use them. Its wrong to use them and not pay them off. Big difference.

In fact if you are wise credit cards work in your advantage as is creates credit history as well as many if not most have some sort of reward program.

But then for some it might be like giving a drink to an alcoholic.

Credit cards are fine and probably preferable in most situations. If you can handle your money.

I would be like the alcoholic getting a drink, no argument w/ that

I don't consider it to be a right vs. wrong issue. I do consider it to be a wise vs. unwise issue. You don't need a credit history. You can save cash to buy what you need, and when it's time to get a mortgage use a company that does manual underwriting. A credit score of 0 (meaning you never borrowed) is better than a credit score of 800. I really do believe that. Dave Ramsey always says about credit cards is that "if you play with snakes, sooner or later you're going to get bit..." and credit card companies and banks, especially their departments that assess fees and interest and do collections, are greedy soulless snakes. The usually small rewards you can get from their reward programs are not worth the risk, IMHO. Also, as of a few years ago, credit card companies have the legal right to raise your interest rate as high as they want at any time, w/o having to give you a reason. There have also been many recent cases of people w/ "perfect" credit having their credit limit slashed by up to 90% because of the credit crunch.

This is just one man's opinion. Each of us has to make our own choices about how to wisely manage our money. And this really isn't a credit card thread, it's a prospering thread. One way that I have prospered in the last 2 years is by refusing to be a slave to my debt anymore, that's all...

[Nomad]

Originally Posted by DIZZY

I would be like the alcoholic getting a drink, no argument w/ that

I don't consider it to be a right vs. wrong issue. I do consider it to be a wise vs. unwise issue. You don't need a credit history. You can save cash to buy what you need, and when it's time to get a mortgage use a company that does manual underwriting. A credit score of 0 (meaning you never borrowed) is better than a credit score of 800. I really do believe that. Dave Ramsey always says about credit cards is that "if you play with snakes, sooner or later you're going to get bit..." and credit card companies and banks, especially their departments that assess fees and interest and do collections, are greedy soulless snakes. The usually small rewards you can get from their reward programs are not worth the risk, IMHO. Also, as of a few years ago, credit card companies have the legal right to raise your interest rate as high as they want at any time, w/o having to give you a reason. There have also been many recent cases of people w/ "perfect" credit having their credit limit slashed by up to 90% because of the credit crunch.

This is just one man's opinion. Each of us has to make our own choices about how to wisely manage our money. And this really isn't a credit card thread, it's a prospering thread. One way that I have prospered in the last 2 years is by refusing to be a slave to my debt anymore, that's all...

You are correct in saying we all have our own choices. My point is simply that credit cards are not inherently bad.


You only pay interest when you do not pay your bill by the due date. I have owned credit cards for 15+ years and for years at a time carried no cash only used the card. I use cards for the majority of my purchases. I have probably paid less that $100 in interest in that time.

Credit cards are not free money. But they are a interest free loan if you pay them off in time. Sometimes they offer you extra protection for travel, warrenties, medical etc. They can offer points etc as well. All in all its about managing.

Again my point was they are not inherently bad. It all how each person uses them.

As for credit scores I am not sure how it works where you live however someone who has never borrowed vs someone who has and pays there card off in time regularily generally has better standing. However having to much credit can work to your disadvantage as the total amount of credit available can be taken into account.

As for people having their credit slashed by 90% during the crises I am not sure what would cause that as I am guessing there are many reasons. One being that they took out to many loans.

Overall being a slave to debt is at least for me something I am not interested in and never have been. I have been debt free my whole life. It gives me freedom.

[DIZZY]

Originally Posted by Nomad

As for credit scores I am not sure how it works where you live however someone who has never borrowed vs someone who has and pays there card off in time regularily generally has better standing.

The question here is... better standing to do what? The only answer is better standing to borrow more money, which I would argue you're better off not doing in the first place. Try on the mindset of 'whatever I need I will save up cash to buy it w/o needing to borrow.'

My parents have used credit cards responsibily for decades, like you, so I know it can be done. I'm just no good at it myself. We could spend hours arguing back and forth on the merits of cash vs. credit, but I'm really not interested in doing that here. We should open another thread if we can't resist.

I'd like to hear some more good ideas of how guys are prospering right now...